Speaker 1: 0:03

If you don't give me my money, if you don't give me my money, I'm going to come to your house every day and harass your clientele walking in, and you know that is like concerning, but I'm like this fucking asshole, you know. Then I said I'm going to like succumb to this. I'm not going to let him. I've been through this many a time before here comes another one. This guy was good this time, though. Hey y 94.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Here comes another one, this guy was good. This time though, hey y'all this is Imban and this is.

Speaker 3: 0:29

Ben Skye.

Speaker 2: 0:32

And this is, madam, the Podcast.

Speaker 3: 0:36

What's this episode about today? Well, this episode we're going to be letting Julie tell us a lot about the people that she's known throughout her career as a madam and sex worker the good, the bad and the ugly.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Yes, Julie and her decades of work in NYC has come across a real mixed bag of people and we will hear about them today in the episode. Some good, some bad, but really humans are just complicated and so is this work and that really shows in this episode You're going to hear things about Jeffrey Epstein's death, what really happened.

Speaker 2: 1:11

How fake mustaches are integral to the operation of a brothel and the connected community that ran the sex work industry in New York City in the early 90s. Because of all the many characters that Julia has run into in her career, we're going to have to divide this episode up into two parts, so this is the first part.

Speaker 3: 1:32

Here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:40

We talk a lot about people you've obviously met working in the industry and we're looking back on the writing that you did as well and some of the notable people that you wrote about then and also with the last episode we were talking about Gigi, we were talking about Lucas, and so I guess, in particular for those people kind of you know, they're very interesting, like, give them some background and so is that something you're full with, and then of course also people that will try to screw you over and you know I don't know about the Ryan thing.

Speaker 1: 2:18

This is a new episode.

Speaker 2: 2:23

Yeah. So, your mind yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:26

So a guy comes in, sees one of the girls that is usually sometimes problematic, you know, emotional, and he has a bad session with her. So he calls me and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, come back in and I'm going to offer you a free session with someone else. So he comes in, sees another girl and he goes. You know, I could paint this place for you, I could help you, I could do a lot of things for you if you want, because this is. You know, I see a lot of like you know you need a little help. And I was like, wow, what a nice guy. So he just starts coming over with paints, coming up with all kinds of toys I mean he said that he's in the toy business and has a warehouse. So I'm like, wow, what a nice person. He starts doing a lot of things for us, you know, even cleaning up the yard out in back of me, just everything. You know. You know he wants to give me little ideas. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice of you. You know I'm just kind of jing-jing, gives me all kinds of ideas. And all of a sudden you know I'm a little low on girls he's like let me bring a few girls that I know. I know a couple of girls. So I said, wow, that's really nice. Just, you know, maybe a little commission, you know, or whatever. And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 1: 3:34

So he brings this first girl he brought. She seemed nice, but then I realized she was like on drugs, like badly on drugs, and I was like, oh, this is not a good situation because you know, one minute she's okay, the next minute she's nuts and so high that she can't even hardly walk, and so that didn't work. Then he brought another girl, was like totally a mess, said you know what, this is not working, it's just not working. And he was like. Then he got really upset and I said I'm sorry, I cannot have these type of girls, I just can't do it. They're just not for me. It's good, it's a bad reputation. And I gave him another place to go to bring him to work, right. But I noticed, as the friendship was forming, he became very aggressive and he was like, yeah, you know, I was on the Mob Wives and I looked on the series and he was on there, you know.

Speaker 1: 4:25

So you know, he impressed me a little bit. I know all the mom guys and I'm like, oh, wow, okay, cool, that's nice, nice to know. But then I realized that it was like when I watched one episode the cops were escorting him off the property Because I don't know what happened. Him and Gavano's friends got into a big you know tip or whatever. So she's walking away on the show and I'm like huh, does he have a little bit of issues here and there? And then I hear Karen Gavano say, oh, you know what, he's gone now, he's not going to be back on the show. And I was laughing and I said oh, wow and something else.

Speaker 1: 5:01

But anyways, through all, this we get to this point and I tell him that we can't work together anymore, and he gets wild and crazy. And I had a girl with me that came from England. She went, you know, on her way. She was worked in Vegas for a little while too and she came with me and of course he, you know, pushed up on her with the same story I'm going to make you a porno star. I've got all these people that are doing these porno movies and you can be, like you know, a porno star. So you know, she's gullible. I mean, these girls need your money and the bigger money. They're like oh wow, you know, and they think you know what I'm saying. So she got excited, she went with him and I was really pissed off. Anyway, she went with him and of course she came right back. She realized in a day or two that it was a big drug party. She said it's too much, too much.

Speaker 1: 5:46

She came back, so that was okay, but he's angry, calling me up, telling me you owe me for the painting. And I'm like what I bought the paint, you, you know is that we worked all this out. No, you owe me for this, you owe me for that If you don't give me my money, I'm going to come to your house every day and harass your clientele walking in, and you know that is like concerning, but I'm like this fucking asshole, you know. Then I said I'm going to like succumb to this. I'm not going to let him. I've been through this many times before. Here comes another one. This guy was good this time, though, because he was real friendly. I even gave him a job as a security one day, on Saturday, you know, but it's just so sad, and this is why it needs to be legalized, because things like this, you know it's so aggravating because things like this come up, you know, because they know that you're sort of like vulnerable to certain situations.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Absolutely yeah, yeah. And you're saying with legalization, yeah it couldn't be because's you know it's legal. Right, someone would hold Ryan accountable.

Speaker 1: 6:51

Of course, and Ryan wouldn't be able to stand in front of a place because you could have him taken out of there. Like, get the hell out of here. You're ordering. You know something like that. I don't know how they're dealing with it, but whatever.

Speaker 2: 7:01

Yeah, it's not your business anymore.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Right, but I did notice he's putting a lot of advertisements around and he's really, you know, god bless him. If he's on his own, I really don't care, I just don't want him with me.

Speaker 2: 7:16

Right.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:18

And so there's been a pattern in your past of people they see the money, they see that you're doing well, also, off of it's not a legalized practice. So it's like, well, what are you going to call the cops?

Speaker 1: 7:33

I've had them call and say if you don't give me $10,000 within two days, I'm going to call 911 every chance I get and send them to your house.

Speaker 3: 7:44

Stuff like that. You know, for the people that threatened you either to you know, hang out outside your place or call 911, did anybody ever follow through on those threats and if so, how did you?

Speaker 1: 7:53

deal with that? Yes, I had a security that I hired. No, she was a phone person. I hired her and when I let her go she started standing in front of my place this is years ago taking pictures of guys walking to scare them. It was like, oh my God, yeah, and so I had the security go out and, you know, go after her. But then that still didn't work. So what I did was I found out where her mother lived and where she lived, you know, just through friends that brought her to me and went and talked to her mother and that seemed to stop everything. I sent some people to talk to her mother.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Oh shit, Damn.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Sometimes you got to fight fire with fire. Yeah, I mean hey, I've even gone to a botanica and paid like a couple thousand dollars to you know to have someone you know stay away Like a stone. Yeah, like everybody else. And it really worked to you know to have someone you know stay away. Yeah, and it really works, yeah, it really really works. Oh yeah, yeah, that worked. I've done a lot of different things.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Yeah, what has been the best solution, best method that you've?

Speaker 1: 9:00

The best solution is, honestly, to get a couple of people to confront that person, but nobody wants to go to that point.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:10

But they're acting on the threats that they're making. Yeah, you have to do something, but they're acting on the threats that they're making.

Speaker 1: 9:15

Yeah, you have to do something.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Hey y'all, it's Emvon here. I just wanted to quickly say that our Patreon is up and running. It's got a bonus episode in it already that we did not air on any platform. It's only available on Patreon. To thank our Patreon subscribers, we want to send you a print our very own Julie Moya's beautiful drawing. I won't say what it is, but maybe you can guess.

Speaker 3: 9:49

It's a phenomenal drawing and you will get a print in the mail as soon as you subscribe to our Patreon. Thank you, and this podcast is really a labor of love and blood, sweat and tears by Em and myself. We are entirely self-funded and we have no major supporters, so we really count on the support of our listeners to help make the show happen. So if you like what you hear and you want to hear more, please go to patreoncom, slash madampod and sign up. It's only five bucks a month and we would love to have you as a closer member of our community.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Oh my God, this was Mary Beth, my phone girl in 2018. You know, my place got raided. My phone girl was up in the apartment. Cops are always like you know, they always miss something. She had the phones on her when they went up to the phone apartment and she's a big, she was a big, heavy lady and I guess she hid them on her somewhere. I don't know where she put her, but she hid them on her and she got away with the phones, so she just started the business from there. I'm just got arrested sitting in Rikers Island and she just started answering my phones, opening up, rented some Airbnbs and rocking and rolling.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Was she impersonating you?

Speaker 1: 11:06

Yes, she was impersonating the place.

Speaker 2: 11:08

She was impersonating the place.

Speaker 1: 11:09

And they knew her because she was my phone girl. Yeah, so I mean it was horrible. Was my phone girl? Yeah, so I mean it was horrible. Um, I was sitting and she was telling the girls all this is to bail Julie out, this is to do help Julie, and all this. But it was not. It was not at all and the girls were like happy to be there and it was just a big scam. And it's such a shame because she literally ran those phones to the ground within like a couple years.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Wow, where she took the phones, took your client list, took advantage because you were out Right, you were at Rikers Yep and the girls were also under the impression that this was yeah for you and like you were okay with it. Yes, it was just an extension of the business.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Yeah, and it was like it was crazy and, like I said, she destroyed the business within a couple years it was just defunct. I was sitting around because I was like oh my God, I can't believe this is going on with this person. And then I'm like they went after me, closed me down, but she's got my phone. Why aren't they going after her? It just was really weird.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Yeah, that is really weird. She just picked up where you left off. You were at Rikers, right.

Speaker 1: 12:21

I wonder what was there yeah, I don't know what that was about, but they didn't bother her whatsoever, wow that's very interesting do you have any closure on that now, or I mean I?

Speaker 1: 12:35

actually, you know, talking to her not too long ago, she's like I'll give you your old phones back and I'm like, stick them up your ass, I don't need my old phones back. You know you ruined our business. My God, it was terrible. And now she doesn't have a job and she ruined the business. And you know she made better money with me.

Speaker 2: 12:53

She was working under a job and she ruined the business and you know she made better money with me, mm-hmm, she was working under you.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Yeah, she did. Yeah, it's crazy the things people do and the things people try.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Yeah, alright. So we talked about scammers, we talked about some devils. Why don't you talk about Lucas? I know that you're like really fond of him. Oh, I love.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Lucas. It was a shame what happened to him. He was my like I was actually going to give the business to him when I was done. Really, he was such a good person from Poland Hardly spoke English when I first met him and he was so like, on top of everything, he was a great guy and then, when they arrested us, he was the only person that did not open his mouth.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Wow.

Speaker 1: 13:34

Yeah, the only person, and they deported him back to Poland and I never saw him again.

Speaker 2: 13:40

You don't have contact with him now you know?

Speaker 1: 13:42

No, I don't, it was Lucas and Leo, it was a couple and they were so adorable. Yeah, so I talk to Leo now and then you know, but it was a horrible situation that happened to them, that they were arrested and locked up for a while.

Speaker 2: 13:59

Was he looking for a job.

Speaker 1: 14:01

Yeah, I put a job in the Polish paper. This is like way back when.

Speaker 2: 14:06

When.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Maybe. Wow, let me think it was probably maybe 2000, maybe 2000. And I had put it for girls in the Polish paper and I got a lot of really nice girls, but it was for acting jobs. Then he came along and I was like wait a minute, maybe we could do something. And you know, we ended up being really good friends, really great guy, yeah. So you know, you get a lot of good people and you get a lot of bad people.

Speaker 2: 14:37

And what did he think, do you know, at?

Speaker 1: 14:39

first he was like, oh okay, I said, you know, it's really for girls, I'm just hiring girls. But he was really like a. I could tell he was like a good guy. And how many years did y'all work together? Worked maybe five years.

Speaker 2: 14:52

Five years.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Five years.

Speaker 2: 14:54

Yeah, it worked maybe five years, five years, five years, yeah, yeah you did trust him yeah. I did very much he was really trustworthy, and so what happened with him?

Speaker 1: 15:05

in the bus, in the bus, the place, everyone else they would give up their mother to get out of there. You know it scares the girls and I understand that, you know, and it scares the security and I had manager security and you know he was the only person who actually was like I'm not going to say nothing, I'm not going to open my mouth. It was unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Who is Leo? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 15:32

Leo is. Lucas's other half.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Yeah, when you hired Lucas, were they together.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Yeah, they were already together, but I didn't really know Leo. As time went on, he brought Leo in.

Speaker 2: 15:41

And Leo started to help out with the business as well. Yeah, yeah, wow.

Speaker 1: 15:45

And I remember one time Lucas cheated on Leo and Leo called me up and he's like they're like you better get over here. Uh, leo took a bunch of pills and he's going to commit suicide. And I'm like, oh my God, you know cause he caught Lucas, you know, cheating on him and it was horrible. So I ran over there and it was some kind of sleepy pills that he took. It wasn't even anything too serious, Thank God, and I got some mustard on his hair and thank God it was just over the counter stuff. You know he was a sweetheart and Lucas was terrible to Chiano.

Speaker 2: 16:16

Yeah, did they work through that? They worked through it.

Speaker 1: 16:19

They did. Yeah, that's good, okay. Lucas tried to say it was another guy who looked like him and it wasn't. It was just all kinds of stuff. He tried to get out of it but he didn't.

Speaker 1: 16:29

You know, yeah, tyler Bill is a very interesting person. I've known him since literally since, oh, I'd say the 90s. I've known him many, many years, even before that, I think. But he was a nice guy, though To a certain point he advertised he was my advertiser for all the places. He would go all around and collect money and sell advertisements to the girls. Where did he come from and what was your relationship like?

Speaker 1: 17:12

Dollar Bill used to be a taxi driver, and this is like a long time ago and then he started working for all these agencies you know, screw all of them and he would come around to all the girls and he would sell advertisements on a bicycle. He would, you know, that was his thing. He would go all around and he wasn't a client at that time, but yeah, he would go and collect money for everyone and take pictures. You know, he's sort of like. Then, when everything went like internet, then he opened up something on his site called Cycle Roundup. He opened the website to advertise and get girls to advertise. And then he likes to write about you know, he really like wants to be a writer in the worst manner, in the worst way.

Speaker 1: 17:57

He's written a lot of stuff. He's on this thing called Medium, I think, or something. He's written a lot of things. He so he's on this thing called Medium, I think, or something. He's written a lot of things. He's written a lot of things about me, about with me, with Larry Flint. When Larry Flint died he was even doing Uber Eats and everything on his bicycle. He's just like that type of guy that just goes. But he was in jail with us, right, and he was on suicide watch with Epstein and he killed himself. So there he goes, money again on the Daily Beast. He was on the Daily Beast. They paid him, I think, I think, eight to 10,000 just for, like you know, hours. So we're talking about it and I asked him what really happened. What really happened? And he said he really did commit suicide. Because I didn't believe it. But he said he really did because he heard him ripping up sheets and stuff like that in there. And I was like, yeah, you're on Suicide Watch, what the hell.

Speaker 3: 18:48

For more information about Dollar Bill and his time on Suicide Watch for Jeffrey Epstein, check out links in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 18:55

I mean the fake IDs to do apartments all over the place. I met through them, through you know, know, I met her through them. I met her. She was this Asian woman, like around a little bit older than me, but basically you know age, and we became really good friends, partners. She would put up the apartment and then I would just bring you know. My part was girls and running the place and we were like it was a great partnership and then I don't know what the hell happened to her. She just started to be. She never got arrested, by the way, ever, ever the electric was in her name. They never bothered her. I don't understand it, but they didn't, you know. But anyway, we were like partners for many years and it worked for a long time, until after the 2018 bust.

Speaker 3: 19:43

If you want to hear more about the fake bust and Gigi's involvement in that, you can listen to Julie's story from episode four of Madam.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Yeah, jonathan, he was a guy that you know. I knew he used to work for the mob and get warehouses for them and stuff like that Warehouses for them to do whatever Fake names, and that's where you know the terrorist thing from the phone store and all this connects. But anyway, he would get apartments for working girls for madams not for working girls for madams and you know you pay him or whatever. He was a oh, he would be treated like he was a lawyer. He would go into court for us everything. And one time he went into court and the lawyer was there and he had to sneak out. He was crazy, but he would. He would take the personality you know, totally, he was great. He was an unbelievable hustler.

Speaker 1: 20:37

This guy was something else. He was, he was, you know, he was from a good Jewish family and stuff like that, and he, he I don't know what happened. He was a lawyer and he was disbarred and then he went to do criminal things. But I remember one place we got thrown out of and he went back again and rented it. He had a whole new disguise on with a whole different thing. I hold a new disguise on with a whole different thing. The same exact person? Yeah, and he got away with it. He got away with it, he did.

Speaker 2: 21:06

What was like a disguise that you would.

Speaker 1: 21:09

He always said that he had a prosthetic leg, so he had to be on the first floor. He said I have a prosthetic leg, I cannot, you know, go upstairs or anything, and I need this apartment, I'm a this and that, you know, whatever. And that's the way that we always stayed on the first floor. We didn't want to go upstairs so they could just come in. For apartments and for commercial places. We said it was, you know, like some kind of something. We always put some little thing together a little whatever together.

Speaker 2: 21:39

You didn't actually have a prosthetic leg. No, it was for the sake of some of that client Right, so he'd come in limping and you know kind of limping, and he would always have a different.

Speaker 1: 21:49

you know, whatever it was like, the age or whatever, he would put a mustache on everything. He just, you know, totally went and make an ID. They made driver's license up and everything, Tax papers and the credit was always real because it was a real person. You know, remember, like from the phone store we get the right, right, right, yeah, so it was always from a real person, so he would pretty much you know disguise and stuff.

Speaker 1: 22:14

Everyone knew everybody. Billy, it was Billy. It was Jonathan, it was Gigi. You know it was um. You was just a lot of people that we all were sort of connected to and we all knew each other. We were all friends. You need this? Yeah, I'll make this idea. You need that? Yes, I'll do that. It was just like a great situation. It was illegal, but it wasn't for bad things. We used to get apartments.

Speaker 3: 22:57

Something just clicked off, you know, at mvonme, that's E-M-V-A-U-G-H-N dot M-E. Our music was composed by Timothy Reyes and, of course, the star of our show is the madam herself, julie Moya. Please subscribe to our show on Spotify, itunes, google Podcasts or anywhere else podcasts are served. Visit us on the web at madampodcom. Thanks for listening. See you next time.